High Altitude Low Octane, Zippy in Boston, EcoBoost Mustang, Real World Pricing [Ask Nathan]

Nathan and The Fast Lane Car team are here to answer your (reasonable) questions. Interesting and/or entertaining emails will be posted to this column. If it's relevant in the automotive universe, there's a chance we may know something about it. The author's email address and name will be omitted - leaving your initials or nickname, your preference.

Nathan and The Fast Lane Car team are here to answer your (reasonable) questions. Interesting and/or entertaining emails will be posted to this column. If it’s relevant in the automotive universe, there’s a chance we may know something about it. The author’s email address and name will be omitted – leaving your initials or nickname, your preference.

From day one, The Fast Lane Car has made it our policy to answer as many questions and comments as we can. We get thousands of emails and comments and feel that, as part of a tight-knit automotive community, having an open dialogue with you keeps things fresh and exciting.

2014 Hyundai Elantra Coupe

In this edition of Ask Nathan:

  • Low octane ping at high altitude?
  • Golf vs Mazda3 – what’s best for under 20K?
  • EcoBoost Mustang vs?
  • “Real World” pricing?

Fuel-efficiency

The first question comes from a reader who’s curious as to the effects of low octane at high altitude for his Mazda CX-5.

Q: I have a question for you guys.

I bought a new 2015 Mazda CX-5; I like it except for the headrest.

The owners manual calls for 87 octane.

Since I’m from Denver, this means 85 octane to me.

These newer Mazda engines brag about a high compression ratio.

I know the reasoning behind using lower octane at altitude; but I’ve also read hear-say that this may not be as true for newer cars.

Also a mid-80’s study by Amoco (not exactly an unbiased source); said that octane requirements reduced .2 per 1000 feet of elevation gain

(so for Denver that’s 86 octane where 87 was in the manual).

I do not hear knocking/pinging; but a guy I work with has a newer Toyota FJ that does ping on 85 (and manual calls for 87).

So, what’s the truth ? Would I gain anything significant by running 87 octane at 5000+ feet in my CX-5 ?

Thanks

J.G.

The World's Most Beautiful Gasoline Pump
The World’s Most Beautiful Gasoline Pump

A: Yes indeed, for those of you who don’t know: the octane rating of gasoline is a measurement of petrol’s ability to mitigate knocking or uncontrolled burn. So, lower air pressure at high altitudes allows vehicles to perform as well on lower octane as they would on one-to-two points higher octane (85 in place of 87) at a lower elevation. Or, so that’s what we use as a rule in Denver.

The Skyactive engine in your Mazda CX-5 is super high compression, so it’s reasonable to assume that it would react in a negative way regarding a low (or, possibly higher) octane than required. Still, I have yet to hear of any complaints regarding knocking for any Skyactive engine at this elevation.

When automakers test their vehicles, many test in the Rocky Mountains. This is to test everything from emissions to cold weather for a multitude of vehicles. Not only do they test up here, they often test with our 85 octane fuel. I know this because I once worked for an automotive testing lab in Denverand TFLcar chases these prototypes all over the Rockies.

High octane seems to be something that older vehicles (pre-1984) are more likely to have issues with. With that being said I recommend two things: follow the recommendations in your owners manual and/or speak to a specialist/mechanic at Mazda for their recommendation.

I try to use 87 octane when I know I’m traveling out of state in my own vehicles. That way, there is no issue at transitioning at lower elevation. Otherwise, I have yet to experience any issues with 85 octane.

Hope that helps!

N

2013 Fiat 500 Abarth Convertible First Drive & Review
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth Convertible First Drive & Review

This next question comes from a viewer who wants something fun, capable and cheap with a manual transmission. He’s looked at our comparison of the Mazda3 vs Golf TDI.

Q:

I have been looking at getting a car in the 20K range. Something fun to drive, especially going on weekend trips to upstate NY, NH, or VT. I live in Boston, so snow handling is also a consideration, as is MPG, and it must have a manual transmission.

I noticed you reviewed and compared a Mazda3 and a Golf TDI, did you compare the manual transmission versions? And how would they compare to the Mini you drove up that curvy mountain road?

I currently drive an ’02 Civic, I like the fact that I’ve only had to give it oil changes for the past 8 years, its turn radius, and it has a forgiving clutch.

Any recommendations?

Thanks..

 

A: A car in the 20K zone with a manual transmission eh? Sure, there are a few possibilities out there. One thing I want to stress is that just about every vehicle out there is a (potentially) good vehicle in the snow, provided if you equip it with snow tires.

Here are a few possibilities:

  • The Ford Fiesta ST – quick, fun and frugal. You can get one, fairly well equipped for under 24K.
  • The Chevrolet Sonic RS – similar to the Fiesta ST, but it has more room.
  • The Fiat 500 Abarth – Tons of fun, but not as utilitarian as the others.
  • The Jeep Renegade Sport/Latitude – tiny turbo, (optional) AWD and a six-speed manual for the mid $20,000 zone.
  • The Scion tC – Quick, frugal, utilitarian and mighty fun to drive. Mid 20K well equipped.
  • The Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T Sport – It zings and gets great mpg for the low 20K range.
  • The Mazda Miata (MX-5) starts at just over $23,000 and it’s worth every penny! The Mazda3 is a great option, and – yes – I’ve driven the manual versions and they are excellent.
  • The Honda Civic Si – Have yet to drive the new one, but I hear good things.

Hope these suggestions help. There are others to be sure, but the Golf TDI you mentioned is pretty pricy. I have not driven the manual version either.

As for comparing any of these vehicles to the MINI Cooper on a mountain road… only the MX-5 could keep up.

Thanks for the email!

N

2015, ford, mustang, ecoboost, turbo

This email comes from a fan in Canada who is about to move to the United States.

Q: Dear Roman and Nathan,

first I have to say that I love your show, I hope you find the time to reply to me, I watched dozens of your videos on youtube and you are the most authentic passionate people I’ve ever watched. Your enthousiasm for cars is really contagious.

I havent owned a car in years living in downtown mtl. Being originally french I used to drive small sporty peugeot and renault hatchbacks when i was younger and loved them very much. I’ve been Canadian for 5 years and i’m moving to SF next week for a wonderful opportunity.

I will need to lease a car there and I love 3 cars for different reasons.

– The Mustang Ecoboost possibly manual

– The 250 CLA which I was happy to test drive and feels great

– The VW GTI which I felt Roman really liked!!!

I was hoping I could be lucky enough to get your opinion between the 3… which do you think is the best choice.

Thank you!

T.

A: Salutations de l’Amérique mon ami! All three choices are quite good. Out of your choices, Roman and I are very fond of the Volkswagen GTI. It is one of the most well rounded vehicles on your list and, for many people, a hatchback is very utilitarian. It’s fast, fairly frugal, fun and logical.

With that being said, you MUST test the Mustang! I have only had a few minutes behind the wheel, but I can tell you this: I cant think of a rear drive car that is anything like the Mustang with the EcoBoost.

While you’re in the Bay Area, we recommend driving on Highway 1 – you’ll love it!

Hope that helps!

N

YarisMonroney

This last question comes from a viewer who wants “real world” pricing in our reviews.

Q: Enjoy your videos, excellent information and real life driving.

We recently purchased the Jeep TrailHawk with the V-6 option, Navigation, Cold Weather Package and tow package for $32,200, this of course. I have noticed on many reviews you will provide pricing that’s not real life examples. On this version the cost told was $36000 plus taxes. Had I taken that figure at face value we may have walked from the car and gone with the Premium Subaru Forester. In reality with a little negotiating we were a few hundred more the than the Subaru and in my opinion a nicer equipped car. Not sure how you change the reviews but aside the exotics rarely do customers pay sticker price

Thanks,

T

A: Greetings, I hope you’re enjoying your Cherokee!

Yes, we are completely at the mercy of what the sticker (Monroney) says about the vehicle. Most of the vehicles we receive come with their Monroney or with an itemized list of what it should cost. Pre-production vehicles come to us from time-to-time with no pricing information whatsoever.

TFL is not in the buying business when it comes to negotiating automobile prices. We cannot suggest how much you might get off the Monroney. Each dealership is different and there are a multitude of ways you can reduce prices. We give the viewer the most transparent pricing we can: the one that’s given to us via the automaker.

Sometimes, when a vehicle is approaching the end of its cycle, we mention that it may be a good time to get a deal on that automobile; but that’s about it. Many dealership have specials: internet discounts, veteran discounts, fleet discounts, credit union and bank discounts, end-of-year discounts; the list goes on and on. We cannot supply “real life” examples of pricing because of the variables.

We will soon be posting the Monroney/sticker on our reviews.

Thanks for the email!

N

Got a question for Nathan? Drop him a line at: asknathan@tflcar.com

Check out this video where we put the 2015 Toyota RAV4’s unique four-wheel drive system… in Moab!

Nathan Adlen Bio Picture Nathan Adlen reviews vehicles from the cheapest to the most prestigious. His words, good humor and videos are enjoyed worldwide.